Transformations

[myfs_112237]

Edited by Robert: Since this is more towards the technical aspects, I will try to answer it later on when I have more free time. Our ba zi analysis would already have analysed all these aspect and considered the various relationship. So if unsure, just generate our report and any combinations etc will be shown in the report where it is available.

Dear Robert and Cecil,

In different books I see conflicting information about transformations. I would be very grateful if you could put some light on a few matters.

1.Is it possible for the Daystem to transform?

2. Suppose we have a daystem of Yang Water and an hour stem of Yin Fire. Will both be transformered to Wood? Or just the hour stem? Or maybe none of the them?

3. It seems transformations of the stems are only possible if the new transformered element is found in thebranch of the Month. Therefore I suppose the above transformation can only happen when Wood is found in the Month branch.

4. Suppose we find Rat, Dragon and Monkey in the branches. They produce a forceof Water. Does this means that the Dragon and Monkey will loose their character and will be transformered in simply Water? Therefore there will be less Earth (Dragon)and Metal (Monkey)in the chart and more Water?

5. For the above branch transformation to happen is it necessary that there is Watersomewhere in the stems? Some sources say that is necessary other books do not mentionconditions and say that the three branches will transform whatever the contents of the stems.

I would be very grateful if you could put your light on this since there is very little material available that explains what exactly happens when transformations occur and the material that is available contains contradictionary information.

All the best and thank you,

Roeland

.

[jing.fung]

I'll try and answer some of the ones that I know about.

Quote:
1.Is it possible for the Daystem to transform?

Yes, but only in the original Ba Zi chart itself. That is, without looking at the luck pillars. However, it must meet certain criteria in order to do so. Most namely, that the Month Branch must aid what the Day Stem wants to transform into. e.g.If the Day Stem is to transform into wood, it can only do so if the Month Branch is wood.

Quote:
2. Suppose we have a daystem of Yang Water and an hour stem of Yin Fire. Will both be transformered to Wood? Or just the hour stem? Or maybe none of the them?

If I remember correctly, they can both change into wood. However, as in the first answer, it must meet certain criteria.

Quote:
3. It seems transformations of the stems are only possible if the new transformered element is found in thebranch of the Month. Therefore I suppose the above transformation can only happen when Wood is found in the Month branch.

If it's inside the original chart, then as far as I am aware, this isn't 100% correct. From what I know, if there are Hidden Stems in the Month Branch that are not under the control of the main element of the Month Branch can also be used. e.g. hidden fire of the first wood branch can have a Day Stem transform into fire, but the hidden earth can not because it is under the control of the main element of wood.

Quote:
4. Suppose we find Rat, Dragon and Monkey in the branches. They produce a forceof Water. Does this means that the Dragon and Monkey will loose their character and will be transformered in simply Water? Therefore there will be less Earth (Dragon)and Metal (Monkey)in the chart and more Water?

There are varying views on this. First, if there is no water Stem in the chart, this branch combinationcan not transform into water. In this instance, they will lose any hidden Stems that they may have in the branches, but will not become water. If there is water in the Stem, then all the branches involved in this combination lose their hidden Stems and all become water instead. In this case, there won't be earth and metal anymore.

Quote:
5. For the above branch transformation to happen is it necessary that there is Watersomewhere in the stems? Some sources say that is necessary other books do not mentionconditions and say that the three branches will transform whatever the contents of the stems.

I believe I have answered this in the previous question.

Kam

[myfs_117685]

Dear Kam,

I have an additional question about tranformations, Please help to enlighten me.

Question

Can a stem from either Luck orYear pillar combine with any stem in original 4P chart and transform?

Example

Can a Jiastem from Luck pillaror Year pillar combine with any Ji stem (not DM) in original 4P chart to transform toEarth element assuming that the Month Branch is Chen (Earth element) ?

Please advise.

Thank you.

David Ooi

[jing.fung]

Hi,

From what I know, there are two thoughts on this. Nothing besides the Day Master may transform in the original chart. I don't personally like this particular idea. As it kinda goes against the idea that everything is universally applicable for everyone and everything.

The other idea is that yes it is allowed. Assuming the Luck/Current Year or Month branch supports the transformation, then yes the Stem can transform. I personally utilise this method, as I feel that only one thing can transform is not quite universal as the rest of the things in Ba Zi.

Regards,

Kam

[myfs_112237]

Dear Kam,

According to some masters for a transformation to water happen it is not enough that there is water in the stems. According to these masters the main element of the branch should also be water or the mother of water (in this case metal).

Have you heard of this additional requirement? Maybe others have some thoughts on this? There seems to be different opinions among Masters about the requirements of transformations which makes things confusing.

All the best,

Roeland

[myfs_112237]

By the way with transformation to water I mean transformation to water as a result of a combination in the branches. According to some masters it is not enough if there is water in the stems, but the main element of the branch of the month should be water or the mother of water (metal).

All the best,

Roeland

[myfs_117685]

Dear Kam,

Thank you for your fast response.

I have an additional question again, please advise.

Question

Can Jia from Luck pillarcombine with Ji Day Master to tranform to Earth element if the Earth branch is Chen (Earth element)?

If yes, in this case, only Jia will transform to Earth element and lost its Wood nature, whereas Ji Day Master remains unchanged. If transformation is allowed, this Ji Day Master is a strong Yin Earth, Earth becomes his unfavourable element despite the fact that originally Jia (Wood element) in the Luck Pillar supposed to be his favourable element.

If transformation is allowed, this strong Ji Day Master will face an inauspicious luck for the next 5 years. Is my above assumption is correct or wrong ?

Please check and enlighten me.

Thank you.

David Ooi

[jing.fung]

Roeland de Looff wrote:

Dear Kam,

According to some masters for a transformation to water happen it is not enough that there is water in the stems. According to these masters the main element of the branch should also be water or the mother of water (in this case metal).

Have you heard of this additional requirement? Maybe others have some thoughts on this? There seems to be different opinions among Masters about the requirements of transformations which makes things confusing.

All the best,

Roeland

No, I haven't heard of a requirement for the Month Branch to be supportive of the change for the branches to transform. Merely having the necessary Stem is good enough.

If what you said is true, then there will be extreme difficulties for the "Follow" type of charts. As many are these types of charts, ARE these types of charts because of transformations of branches in the chart, that if they were affected by the Month, would have made them a normal chart person.

Personally, I don't believe there is such a requirement. But each to their own.

Kam

[jing.fung]

If you use the view that I have, then yes, that Wood Stem will transform into Earth during that period. And yes, if Earth is unfavourable, then it likely means trouble with spouse (if a male), money troubles, siblings and friends.

Kam

[myfs_112237]

Dear Kam,

Thank you for your insightful responses. Here is another example. Suppose the Day Stem is Yang Fire and the stem of the Luck Pillar is Yin Metal.

Will in that case both the Day Stem and the Luck Pillar Stem be transformered into Water if the branch of the Month Pillar allows this?.

The reason why I give this example is to find out whether the DayStem can transform as a result of a certain Luck Pillar.

All the best,

Roeland

[jing.fung]

Roeland,

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I'm pretty sure that the Day Master will not transform with anything other than what is in the original chart. As there are certain types of charts that utilise this exact thing to form their chart types. (Transformation charts, that is based on the Day Master transforming into something else within the original chart).

So I don't think that,if another combinable Stem turn up, it will transform. It's a little weird this one. I myself am not 100% happy with it, but for now, because I haven't seen anything else that contradicts this, I follow this rule too. There are those that say that because the Day Master represents the self, it won't transform easily, so stuff outside the original chart (that has the largest influence) can't transform it. It can transform other things, but not itself. (I hope I'm remembering that correctly).

Other Stems in the original chart can transform however with the Luck pillar, so if the Year Stem was a Yang Fire, that could transform with the Luck pillar's Yin Metal. Assuming that the original charts Month Branch supported it, or the Luck pillar supported it.

Regards,

Kam

[myfs_117685]

Dear Kam,

I have an additional question about tranformations, Please help to enlighten me.

Example

54-63

Time Day Month Year Luck P 2007 P

Geng Wu JiaGui Wu Ding

Shen Xu Ying SiShen Hai

Wu from Luck Pillar combines with Gui to transform to hidden Fire element since there is a catalyst of FIre in 2007 Pillar and this transformation is supported by Month EB.

Question:

1. What is the meaning of this transformation ?

2. Gui is the wealth element to this DM, combine away this wealth element, is it a loss of wealth for this DM in 2007 ? or

3. Will this DM faces separation from the wife since Gui is the spouse element ? or

4. Will this DM suffers loss of wife ? or

5. Is this DM finds a new girl friend ?

I have an additional question,

6. Is this Yang Earth (Wu) a strong Earth DM ? I look at the Month EB, this DM may be a weak Earth DM. However, the free report indicated that this DM is a strong Earth DM.

Please check and advise.

Thank you for your help.

Best regards always,

David Ooi

[jing.fung]

Quote:
1. What is the meaning of this transformation ?

Are you asking for the meaning of this particular transformation? Or the effects this transformation will have to this Ba Zi? As each of the Five Ten Stem transformations have their own individual names too. To which of the above are you refering to?

Quote:

2. Gui is the wealth element to this DM, combine away this wealth element, is it a loss of wealth for this DM in 2007 ? or

3. Will this DM faces separation from the wife since Gui is the spouse element ? or

4. Will this DM suffers loss of wife ? or

5. Is this DM finds a new girl friend ?

What exactly happens due to this transformation is down to whether the chart is Strong or not, and the resulting transformation.

Quote:

6. Is this Yang Earth (Wu) a strong Earth DM ? I look at the Month EB, this DM may be a weak Earth DM. However, the free report indicated that this DM is a strong Earth DM.

There are many ways to determine if a chart is Strong or Weak. But the best way to be sure, is to check with the history of that particular person. Usually, it will fit quite well with the standard models of a chart being a Strong chart entering Good and Bad Luck periods, and the same for the Weak chart types. If it doesn't, you can consider the opposite model.

Since I have no other information about this person, you'll have to cross reference yourself to be sure whether the chart is Strong or Weak.

Regards

Kam

[myfs_117685]

Dear Kam,

Thank you for your reply, appreciate your help. Keen to learn Bazi from you especially on transformation. Below is the list to your questions.

Kam Wah Fung wrote:
Are you asking for the meaning of this particular transformation? Or the effects this transformation will have to this Ba Zi? As each of the Five Ten Stem transformations have their own individual names too. To which of the above are you refering to?

Yes. I am asking for the meaning of this particular transformation and also the effects of this transformation to this DM.

Quote:
Kam Wah Fung wrote:
What exactly happens due to this transformation is down to whether the chart is Strong or not, and the resulting transformation.

Since the free report is stating this DM is a Strong Yang Earth, from the past history and reference, Iconfirmedthe strengthis strong. Please also noted that this transformation is supported by the catalyst of Jia in Month Stem and Yin in Month Branch. Please help to answer all 4 questions to clear my doubt.

Thank you.

Best regards always,

David

[myfs_117685]

Dear Kam,

There is a small mistake in my list, it should read as :

Quote:

Ooi David wrote:
Since the free report is stating this DM is a Strong Yang Earth, from the past history and reference, Iconfirmedthe strengthis strong. Please also noted that this transformation is supported by the catalyst ofDing in 2007 Year Stem and Yin in Month Branch of original Bazi chart. Please help to answer all 4 questions to clear my doubt

Sorry for the mistake.

Thank you.

Best regards always,

David

[myfs_117685]

Dear Kam,

Can you please review and advise my questions ?

I am still waiting eagerly for your valuable answer so that I can learn Bazi from you.

Thank you.

Best regards always,

David

[jing.fung]

Hi,

Only just had time to properly answer your question now. Sorry for the delay.

2. Gui is the wealth element to this DM, combine away this wealth element, is it a loss of wealth for this DM in 2007 ?

In 2007, although the Major Luck decade combines with the Gui Wealth, it will not transform. This is due to another aspect which is not clear in modern times. Basically, some older texts make mention that for one to transform into something else, it must be weak in order for it to change. Whether or not this applies in this case or not, I can tell you that it won't necessarily matter. Here's why:

In 2007, the Water (Wealth in the Branch) combines with the Month and transforms. That's OK. This is because the Metal in the Major 10 year luck period will support any Water (Wealth) during that year, and it will also combine with the Year Branch to become Water in that sense, so the Gui Water in the Year Stem will have a stronger root. So if the person is more careful, and avoids joint ventures, then this person can more safely go through 2007 without any major loss, and indeed, if scrupulous, might even come out ahead.

But it should be noted, that with 2007, all four Longevity Branches (Snake, Monkey, Pig and Tiger) come together, which can cause problems for this persons elders.

3. Will this DM faces separation from the wife since Gui is the spouse element ?

Unlikely, you might find each other wandering off in different directions, but not actual seperation. ie. Divorce.

Why? Because the Day Branch has not been affected, which is often used if "Fortune Telling" to denote the relationship one has with their partner. Because the Gui is partnering with something else to do stuff, but the Day Branch is unaffected by a clash, then it is unlikely a true seperation. It could be a change of job hours, job location, long holiday etc, which sends the wife elsewhere, and not divorce.

And as I stated above, since there is a strong Water presence, the Gui Water doesn't have to change, and indeed won't change willingly. So unless this person deliberately asks for a divorce, it will unlikely happen.

You have to look at the Palace (in this case Day Branch represents marriage/spouse commonly in "Fortune Telling"), the Strength (influence of the Star: in this case wealth), it's distance from the Day Master (person/self), favourable/unfavourable element (whether good or bad),to determine the outcome. Not just from looking at one aspect.

4. Will this DM suffers loss of wife ?

As stated in previous answer, unless you are talking about the person (DM) wanting to change, there will unlikely be an actual change. Wife will unlikely die, or ask for divorce.

5. Is this DM finds a new girl friend ?

The DM may find that he encounters more of the opposite sex during the year, but it won't necessarily be a new girl friend. This is partly down to his choice too.

Hope that's been of some help. Sorry about the delay once again. Have been very busy.

Regards

Kam