How to select a time of birth for pillars module

[des]

Hi Cecil/Robert,
I am trying to decipher how to select the time of birth of a friend onto the Pillars of Destiny module whose birthday is 5 minutes after midnight. If his birthday is on 6 Mar, 00.05 hours. Should this be indicated as 5 Mar, 11pm - 12.59 am, or 6 Mar, 1am - 2.59 am (as this is the earliest possible time for 6 Mar)?
Would appreciate your early response on this.
Thanks... Desmond

[Robert Lee]

Dear Desmond,
The original and traditional Chinese treats takes every 2 hours as one chinese hour.
Many calculations also depends on this two hourly method.
However, I do know and understand why some Masters break up that special midnight into an additional hour, calling it a 13th hour relating it back to one of the 12th hour.
Although, I can understand this, but the problem here is that the influence for those between 11 pm to 11.59pm and 12 am to 12.59am stills falls under the influence of this same hour as that is how the chinese hour is related to the 24 hour western timing.
Which means that 5 Mar, 11pm, will span to 6 Mar 12.59 am.
This was one of the reason why, I do not intend to use this breakdown as, it changes the balance of elements in the 12 chinese hour.
The reason why Chinese Pillars of Destiny (ba zi) can be accurate even if you lack the hour is because of the very complex nature of analysing the charts which if you obtain the correct formula and way of doing so, it is possible to determine majority of the events.
Basically, for many analysis for the luck pillars actually depends on the year, month, hour, thus sometimes there is no need to worry so much about the hour of birth. Although, it does increase the accuracy.
Warmest Regards
Robert Lee

Quote

On 9/17/99 11:01:22 AM, Anonymous wrote:
Hi Cecil/Robert,
I am trying to decipher how to
select the time of birth of a
friend onto the Pillars of
Destiny module whose birthday
is 5 minutes after midnight.
If his birthday is on 6 Mar,
00.05 hours. Should this be
indicated as 5 Mar, 11pm -
12.59 am, or 6 Mar, 1am - 2.59
am (as this is the earliest
possible time for 6 Mar)?
Would appreciate your early
response on this.
Thanks... Desmond

[des]

Thank you for your prompt reply.
I think that the time of birth is quite critical.
Using similar details as above, if I ignore the time of birth and consider my friend's birth date to be 6 Feb, his main element is water (according to your system), whereas if I use 5 Feb, his main element is metal.
I just want to be accurate before I utilise the credit for the report management system.
Therefore, I would consider my friend's birth date: 6 Feb, 00:05 hours (5 minutes after midnight) to be within the span of 5 Feb, 11 pm - 12.59 am.
Would appreciate your comments.
Thank you/best regards... Desmond

[Robert Lee]

Dear Desmond,
Please read below:-
You see the Traditional Chinese time is divided int 12 units as 12 as follows:-
1 am - 2.59 am : chou
3 am - 4.59 am : yin
5 am - 6.59 am : mao
7 am - 8.59 am : chen
9 am - 10.59 am : si
11 am - 12.59 pm : wu
1 pm - 2.59 pm : wei
3 pm - 4.59 pm : shen
5 pm - 6.59 pm : you
7 pm - 8.59 pm : shu
9 pm - 10.59 pm : hai
11 pm - 12.59 am : zi
Modified version of the Traditional Time:-
1 am - 2.59 am : chou
3 am - 4.59 am : yin
5 am - 6.59 am : mao
7 am - 8.59 am : chen
9 am - 10.59 am : si
11 am - 12.59 pm : wu
1 pm - 2.59 pm : wei
3 pm - 4.59 pm : shen
5 pm - 6.59 pm : you
7 pm - 8.59 pm : shu
9 pm - 10.59 pm : hai
11 pm - 11.59 am : late zi
12 am - 12.59 am : early zi
(Basically not necessary)
11 pm to 12.59 am is already representing the following times:-
5 Feb 11 pm to 5 Feb 11.59 pm
6 Feb 12 am to 6 Feb 12.59 am
Basically, the timings are there so that we can convert the time into chinese time represented by Zi, Chou, Yin, etc.
Which is actually to make it simple Zi hour. That is all.
This means that for the Chinese hour of 11 pm - 12.59 am, it will represent the dates who are born in 5 Feb 11 pm to 6 Feb 12.59 am, 4 Feb 11 pm to 5 Feb 12.59 am, or even 6 Feb 11 pm to 7 Feb 12.59 am.
There is no need to modify any timing. As your Solar date would have converted it 6 Feb 12.59 am. Thus, your solar day is 6th day and not 5th day.
If you friend was born in 5 Feb 12:05 am, then he is considered 5 Feb Zi hour
Since is is born in 6 Feb 12:05 am, then he is considered 6 Feb Zi hour.
So that is why I do not see the explicit need for the modified dates or to worry about this, as your Solar dates have converted to the 6 day already.
That, is why so long as you enter your Solar date, the conversion will convert you to the proper representation of the Chinese Lunar date.
I think you are confusing yourself unnecessarily, since he is born on 6 Mar 00:05:-
Just choose 6 as the day, Mar as the month, the year he is born, and the timing 11 pm to 12.59 pm since it is 12:05 pm (00:05 pm).
The Solar date will have already treat it as 6 Mar and not 5 Mar.
Do not need to make any unnecessary modification to the Solar date, as it will be converted into the Chinese date according to your Solar Date.
Hope that clears your doubt.
Warmest Regards
Robert Lee

Quote

On 9/17/99 3:09:24 PM, Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for your prompt
reply.
I think that the time of birth
is quite critical.
Using similar details as
above, if I ignore the time of
birth and consider my friend's
birth date to be 6 Feb, his
main element is water
(according to your system),
whereas if I use 5 Feb, his
main element is metal.
I just want to be accurate
before I utilise the credit
for the report management
system.
Therefore, I would consider my
friend's birth date: 6 Feb,
00:05 hours (5 minutes after
midnight) to be within the
span of 5 Feb, 11 pm - 12.59
am.
Would appreciate your
comments.
Thank you/best regards...
Desmond

[xuankong]

Dear Robert,
I have the same problem. Per what you said, the earthly branch for hour pillar would always be zi(rat), but what about the heavenly stem.

Quote

On 9/18/99 11:58:34 AM, Anonymous wrote:
Dear Desmond,
Please read below:-
You see the Traditional
Chinese time is divided int 12
units as 12 as follows:-
1 am - 2.59 am : chou
3 am - 4.59 am : yin
5 am - 6.59 am : mao
7 am - 8.59 am : chen
9 am - 10.59 am : si
11 am - 12.59 pm : wu
1 pm - 2.59 pm : wei
3 pm - 4.59 pm : shen
5 pm - 6.59 pm : you
7 pm - 8.59 pm : shu
9 pm - 10.59 pm : hai
11 pm - 12.59 am : zi
Modified version of the
Traditional Time:-
1 am - 2.59 am : chou
3 am - 4.59 am : yin
5 am - 6.59 am : mao
7 am - 8.59 am : chen
9 am - 10.59 am : si
11 am - 12.59 pm : wu
1 pm - 2.59 pm : wei
3 pm - 4.59 pm : shen
5 pm - 6.59 pm : you
7 pm - 8.59 pm : shu
9 pm - 10.59 pm : hai
11 pm - 11.59 am : late zi
12 am - 12.59 am : early zi
(Basically not necessary)
11 pm to 12.59 am is already
representing the following
times:-
5 Feb 11 pm to 5 Feb 11.59 pm
6 Feb 12 am to 6 Feb 12.59 am
Basically, the timings are
there so that we can convert
the time into chinese time
represented by Zi, Chou, Yin,
etc.
Which is actually to make it
simple Zi hour. That is all.
This means that for the
Chinese hour of 11 pm - 12.59
am, it will represent the
dates who are born in 5 Feb 11
pm to 6 Feb 12.59 am, 4 Feb 11
pm to 5 Feb 12.59 am, or even
6 Feb 11 pm to 7 Feb 12.59 am.
There is no need to modify any
timing. As your Solar date
would have converted it 6 Feb
12.59 am. Thus, your solar day
is 6th day and not 5th day.
If you friend was born in 5
Feb 12:05 am, then he is
considered 5 Feb Zi hour
Since is is born in 6 Feb
12:05 am, then he is
considered 6 Feb Zi hour.
So that is why I do not see
the explicit need for the
modified dates or to worry
about this, as your Solar
dates have converted to the 6
day already.
That, is why so long as you
enter your Solar date, the
conversion will convert you to
the proper representation of
the Chinese Lunar date.
I think you are confusing
yourself unnecessarily, since
he is born on 6 Mar 00:05:-
Just choose 6 as the day, Mar
as the month, the year he is
born, and the timing 11 pm to
12.59 pm since it is 12:05 pm
(00:05 pm).
The Solar date will have
already treat it as 6 Mar and
not 5 Mar.
Do not need to make any
unnecessary modification to
the Solar date, as it will be
converted into the Chinese
date according to your Solar
Date.
Hope that clears your doubt.
Warmest Regards
Robert Lee
On 9/17/99 3:09:24 PM, Desmond Tan
wrote:
Thank you for your prompt
reply.
I think that the time of birth
is quite critical.
Using similar details as
above, if I ignore the time of
birth and consider my friend's
birth date to be 6 Feb, his
main element is water
(according to your system),
whereas if I use 5 Feb, his
main element is metal.
I just want to be accurate
before I utilise the credit
for the report management
system.
Therefore, I would consider my
friend's birth date: 6 Feb,
00:05 hours (5 minutes after
midnight) to be within the
span of 5 Feb, 11 pm - 12.59
am.
Would appreciate your
comments.
Thank you/best regards...
Desmond

[Cecil Lee]

Dear Lily,
The calculation of the Hourly branch i.e. the first part is taken from zi (rat) but the Heavenly stem requires one to look at the Day pillar together with zi (rat) to find out the Heavenly stem of the hour. Therefore if one looks at it zi (rat) whether it is zi-early rat or zi-late rat does not matter. What is more important is to get the Day correct.
Essentially, if one understand how Pillar works, the hour pillar is not that necessary
as not all analysis refer to the hour pillar. However, with the hour of birth one can get more accuracy i.e. more elements to analyse especially for house of life. House of conception does not need the Hour pillars.
Robert who is an expert in Pillars of Destiny knows almost every School under this field and has adopted the best practises and discarded `long-winded' and sometimes `non logic' steps in such a process.
As he had mentioned earlier for example, the Hour stem is based on 12 hours and 11.pm to 12.59pm is = zi (rat). He does not believe in complicating the process by dividing zi into `earlier & later' zi because one can know whether it is before or after 12.00. This is only for referencing but in terms of practical calculations, `earlier and later' zi is always = zi.
The reason why some Hong Kong Practioners want to use the above method is because for Chinese, most of them refer to the Chinese dates as the Heavenly stem and Earthly combination such as e.g. jia-zi Year and Hourly branch for e.g. yi-zi. To make it easier for them to tell at a glance, they may call it yi-early zi or yi-later zi. By doing so, the can glance yi-later zi as 11pm onwards. If it is yi-early zi, it refers to early morning 12 to 1am. This is all it is used.
As we are using Solar dates as the main source of conversion, this is no longer necessary. Hsia has a major flaw in that is unable to tell a `blind' year. While Solar method uses the best of both as it is cross referenced to the seasons under Hsia.
There are lots more `illogical' practises which are found in some other calculations.



It is always good to adopt the best practises and discard practises that may not be necessary.
Warmest Regards,
Cecil

Quote

On 9/18/99 1:28:15 PM, Anonymous wrote:
Dear Robert,
I have the same problem. Per
what you said, the earthly
branch for hour pillar would
always be zi(rat), but what
about the heavenly stem.

On 9/18/99 11:58:34 AM, Robert Lee
wrote:
Dear Desmond,
Please read below:-
You see the Traditional
Chinese time is divided int 12
units as 12 as follows:-
1 am - 2.59 am : chou
3 am - 4.59 am : yin
5 am - 6.59 am : mao
7 am - 8.59 am : chen
9 am - 10.59 am : si
11 am - 12.59 pm : wu
1 pm - 2.59 pm : wei
3 pm - 4.59 pm : shen
5 pm - 6.59 pm : you
7 pm - 8.59 pm : shu
9 pm - 10.59 pm : hai
11 pm - 12.59 am : zi
Modified version of the
Traditional Time:-
1 am - 2.59 am : chou
3 am - 4.59 am : yin
5 am - 6.59 am : mao
7 am - 8.59 am : chen
9 am - 10.59 am : si
11 am - 12.59 pm : wu
1 pm - 2.59 pm : wei
3 pm - 4.59 pm : shen
5 pm - 6.59 pm : you
7 pm - 8.59 pm : shu
9 pm - 10.59 pm : hai
11 pm - 11.59 am : late zi
12 am - 12.59 am : early zi
(Basically not necessary)
11 pm to 12.59 am is already
representing the following
times:-
5 Feb 11 pm to 5 Feb 11.59 pm
6 Feb 12 am to 6 Feb 12.59 am
Basically, the timings are
there so that we can convert
the time into chinese time
represented by Zi, Chou, Yin,
etc.
Which is actually to make it
simple Zi hour. That is all.
This means that for the
Chinese hour of 11 pm - 12.59
am, it will represent the
dates who are born in 5 Feb 11
pm to 6 Feb 12.59 am, 4 Feb 11
pm to 5 Feb 12.59 am, or even
6 Feb 11 pm to 7 Feb 12.59 am.
There is no need to modify any
timing. As your Solar date
would have converted it 6 Feb
12.59 am. Thus, your solar day
is 6th day and not 5th day.
If you friend was born in 5
Feb 12:05 am, then he is
considered 5 Feb Zi hour
Since is is born in 6 Feb
12:05 am, then he is
considered 6 Feb Zi hour.
So that is why I do not see
the explicit need for the
modified dates or to worry
about this, as your Solar
dates have converted to the 6
day already.
That, is why so long as you
enter your Solar date, the
conversion will convert you to
the proper representation of
the Chinese Lunar date.
I think you are confusing
yourself unnecessarily, since
he is born on 6 Mar 00:05:-
Just choose 6 as the day, Mar
as the month, the year he is
born, and the timing 11 pm to
12.59 pm since it is 12:05 pm
(00:05 pm).
The Solar date will have
already treat it as 6 Mar and
not 5 Mar.
Do not need to make any
unnecessary modification to
the Solar date, as it will be
converted into the Chinese
date according to your Solar
Date.
Hope that clears your doubt.
Warmest Regards
Robert Lee
On 9/17/99 3:09:24 PM, Desmond Tan
wrote:
Thank you for your prompt
reply.
I think that the time of birth
is quite critical.
Using similar details as
above, if I ignore the time of
birth and consider my friend's
birth date to be 6 Feb, his
main element is water
(according to your system),
whereas if I use 5 Feb, his
main element is metal.
I just want to be accurate
before I utilise the credit
for the report management
system.
Therefore, I would consider my
friend's birth date: 6 Feb,
00:05 hours (5 minutes after
midnight) to be within the
span of 5 Feb, 11 pm - 12.59
am.
Would appreciate your
comments.
Thank you/best regards...
Desmond